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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
1
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Posted - 2015.09.01 10:15:51 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:You dont know because you never experienced it.
That is so famous as a fallacy that it has a latin name: Ad verecundiam
Edit: It was time to change the profile. That one had reached 100 posts.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 10:40:02 -
[2] - Quote
Nevase Prometeus wrote:My game time will end in mid september. And I decide to quit EVE. Because I like PVE more than PVP and don't wnat to be just prey for some PVP players . I just want to pay EVE in my style after trying for 2 years Eve still cannot support my style .
I think I pay money for my fun not for to another player's fun. That'all
That is what I meant.
You know that the fact that a player owns a Customs Office make people go elsewhere for PI, or quit altogether just because they dont want to pay for a player, even if paying for a players means paying less.
And you get someone making campaing about making EVE better by taxing people more to stay in NPC corps and HiSec.
That is an issue. Due to the rewarded unfriendly nature of players, that is how most people perceives PvP.
That is a CCP or game problem ? No. That is a playerbase problem.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 11:09:33 -
[3] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nevase Prometeus wrote:My game time will end in mid september. And I decide to quit EVE. Because I like PVE more than PVP and don't wnat to be just prey for some PVP players . I just want to pay EVE in my style after trying for 2 years Eve still cannot support my style .
I think I pay money for my fun not for to another player's fun. That'all
All I need is just play my game without any interupt from another players so when EVE cannot support my requirements , I just looking for another choices. My money my choice. That's simple easy decision. It took you 2 years to figure this out? Better late than never. You never had the mindset to be an EVE PVEr, with the exception of some (not all) of our less courageous high sec bros, the hall mark of an EVE PVE jock is ENJOYING the fact that you will succeed against opposition. Any idiot (or monkey) can shoot npcs or play a hacking mini-game, it takes real nerve and creativity to do those things while actual human beings are trying to kill you outside of high sec. In some cases it takes even more nerve to do it in high sec against game mechanics experts like CODE.
Good luck in whatever stale protected themepark you finally land at.
Now that is some ridiculously prejudicial assumption from another example of "I want people to enjoy the game the way I want".
Granted that EVE is a game of completition and you must be read for that.
But PVP in EVE does not require any more brains than shot NPCs. And CODE is the least of the concerns in EVE. You can spend hours and hours daily in EVE, travelling through Uedama, Niarja, and Halaima for that matter, without even having to aknowledge CODE existance.
Anyone who says PVP in EVE require any sort of capacity that is not required in PVE is just plain full of ****.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 12:08:52 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:The game is stale. CCP now makes it super easy for you to do everything yourself. CCP has nerfed non - consensual pvp so much that the game is becoming unplayable. The only thing that differentiated Eve from every other game on the market was the danger. The danger is almost completely non existent.
1. Bring back old Jet Can Flagging rules.
2. Nerf drone boats
3. Reduce ore capacities.
Make high sec more dangerous so there is a point to join a corp, so moving to low sec and null sec isn't such a terrifying jump for carebears.
Or just keep trying to dumb down the game and continue getting the same results.
So basically, "EVE is dyingGäó" trend all over again.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 13:49:31 -
[5] - Quote
Do you notice that no matter the issue risen, someone has to always blame it on of the following things:
- Carebears
- Sov
- HiSec
- NPC corps
- Null Mechanics
And thus far, there is no reason to believe such things really impact the lives of significant number of players.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 14:44:46 -
[6] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Estevan Valladares wrote:Do you notice that no matter the issue risen, someone has to always blame it on of the following things:
- Carebears
- Sov
- HiSec
- NPC corps
- Null Mechanics
And thus far, there is no reason to believe such things really impact the lives of significant number of players. Isn't that the entirety of what makes up eve?
Are you being funny or you really think that ?
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 14:52:14 -
[7] - Quote
When someone says you cant eat a pizza because ipods are made in China, there is a mass consensus that its non-sense.
When you say that something cannot be versus because it does not cause losses, then people think it is a valid point.
It is like people forgot the meaning of AND, OR, IF and WHILE all at the same time.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 15:37:43 -
[8] - Quote
Throth wrote:I quit because there is nothing left for me as a casual gamer. I'm tired of the expectations that I have too keep up with every exploit and change or else I'm deserving of griefing. It's another version of victim blaming, only in a virtual world.
There never was bro. There were only your illusions of something casual about EVE.
New Eden is a place where only people who lives it can enjoy it.
"EVE is not dying, because EVE is realGäó"
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 15:53:21 -
[9] - Quote
Throth wrote:Estevan Valladares wrote:Throth wrote:I quit because there is nothing left for me as a casual gamer. I'm tired of the expectations that I have too keep up with every exploit and change or else I'm deserving of griefing. It's another version of victim blaming, only in a virtual world.
There never was bro. There were only your illusions of something casual about EVE. New Eden is a place where only people who lives it can enjoy it. "EVE is not dying, because EVE is realGäó" As a player that has been playing since the beginning, I disagree with you. This is not my first toon, but is the one I chose as a main toon because I decided on my third toon to train the attribute skills first; which I means that I have been playing since the beginning of Eve. I remember a time where Eve was more more diverse. PvP was a choice in the beginning, and slowly it got pushed onto everybody. I remember when griefing and exploitation started and CCP made decisions to allow them to happen since they weren't technically breaking the rules. And now I will last remember that there is no longer any casual gameplay left. Please tell me more about what you remember from 2004 that contradicts what I remember.... Either way, I'm saying goodbye to over a decade of Eve, and congrats to the player that I gave my 20B in assets to; may he/she enjoy them. Fly safe phukers lol.
I have been playing since eve debut too. Still your expectations only talking EVE was always the same way, it just had less people at some point.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 15:57:52 -
[10] - Quote
Is 20B much ?
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 16:09:01 -
[11] - Quote
That was retoric. I know it is not. That is the thing. Casual play, 20B, and etc are like ... nothing much.
There is a saying rolling in EVE from long time:
"EVE is not the kind of game that has a hero taking you by the hand to be the choosen one and save the Universe. In EVE you learn soon that you are not special, not relevant, and not powerful. If you want it, you must fight for it."
That is basically why casual game has never been special in EVE.
When you have 200 players, maybe 1 has an impact, but the other 199 will have a bigger impact. And 50 that spends all day in EVE will have a bigger impact than the other 150.
Today, still the same. You just feel more heavly the truth. You cant sustain those false hopes long as you could before.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 16:45:52 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.
And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.
But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.
"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."
And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".
There is always one of those around.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
2
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Posted - 2015.09.01 17:14:37 -
[13] - Quote
Everyone uses the same excuse about exploits.
Exploits arent EVERY single way game mechanics can be used against you.
Exploits are only when the game mechanics DO NOT allow you to do something and you use a technique to do it.
If you are just cleverly using game mechanics, it is just it, you are being more clever.
When you arent aware of game mechanics, that is your loss, not unfair or violating.
EVE is one of the few games where being smart is more rewarding than being a dumb repeater.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
3
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Posted - 2015.09.01 17:21:22 -
[14] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5438509
And what if the game rules change ? One of the rules that has never changed is that rules can change.
On a side note, there is not a single reason why CONCORD wont start podding people. There was something that prevented NPCs from podding people which is not true anymore.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 17:35:12 -
[15] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Throth wrote:Estevan Valladares wrote:Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.
And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.
But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.
"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."
And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".
There is always one of those around. To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt. What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?
Exactly. I can go right now to the Bazaar and buy one to back my claim in that reasoning of his.
And his can be bought one aswell.
I have been selling characters for their ages from a long time, and this one will in some years be one of those.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
3
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Posted - 2015.09.01 17:41:47 -
[16] - Quote
The only thing I am talking about which is the truth is that the game was always that way, it doesnt BECAME what it is, it has always been.
You are the one saying it is not, but anything mentioned here you can look up it will give you a post about it as long as the forum exists.
And your reasoning of implying you know what you say because your character has X birth date is as empty as you make imply that my alt means I cant be from that time. The more you try to argue that your CHAR age means something, the more you imply that you dont know how eve works.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
6
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Posted - 2015.09.01 17:57:55 -
[17] - Quote
People who cant argue with logic and reason rise up things that doesnt direct contradict the idea, but asserts that the person who contradicts is more experienced or important than the person who conveys the idea. That kind of fallacy is so old it has a latin name: Ad Verecundiam.
And then you try to make the assertion of authority over the issue more proeminent by trying to use offensive or detrimental language, which also has a latin name, it is called: Ad Hominem.
Which has been always the sign that you yourself cant back your own claims by means of a reason why the other person is wrong, instead of implying the person must be.
And that has always been answered by another technique which also has a latin name: In Veritas.
"Does the truth stop being the truth because the messenger is a lier ? Does a fact stop from happening because it is related by someone who didnt witnessed it ?"
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 18:15:55 -
[18] - Quote
Throth wrote:Estevan Valladares wrote:People who cant argue with logic and reason rise up things that doesnt direct contradict the idea, but asserts that the person who contradicts is more experienced or important than the person who conveys the idea. That kind of fallacy is so old it has a latin name: Ad Verecundiam.
And then you try to make the assertion of authority over the issue more proeminent by trying to use offensive or detrimental language, which also has a latin name, it is called: Ad Hominem.
Which has been always the sign that you yourself cant back your own claims by means of a reason why the other person is wrong, instead of implying the person must be.
And that has always been answered by another technique which also has a latin name: In Veritas.
"Does the truth stop being the truth because the messenger is a lier ? Does a fact stop from happening because it is related by someone who didnt witnessed it ?" Your point is a logic fail. I am contrasting my experience to you inexperience. Logic dictates that the person who was actually present for said encounters has more authority than a person that wasn't. You are literally trying to tell me that my experiences are wrong because your inexperience says so. Go phk yourself.
Logic does not dictates that. Your fallacy (Ad Verecundiam) does. And its preciselly because logic doesnt that the latin vernacular for that specific statement was coined long before me, you, and EVE existed.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 18:28:10 -
[19] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMXAKLb0XZY
That never happened, because I cant have seen it, my char is new. LOL
Try and listen how much of that has changed until today.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 18:38:19 -
[20] - Quote
The problem is the self worth of a person is sometimes measured by the idea that said persons actions are justified by something.
That is another fallacy, that one is called: Ad Misericordiam.
And that is the one people use to get empathy when they cant get sympathy.
Give them reason because you suffer the same thing or understand the reason of the suffering.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.01 19:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
There is no burden of proof. You cant prove your toon is from the time you say it is. Wont say that again, you may think you are right, but the fact that you think your toon birth date means something, tells all I need to know on how you are not knowledgeable as you say.
Second, the argument is not about ages, is about your bull of eve having changed. It didnt, and you are not talking about it, using fallacy to deviate your main argument, by the way, also a famous one and has also a name in latin: Non sequitur.
Then you promote a ton of points of order that in nothing adds or changes the discussion, like deviating from the reason to the examples of the consequence without causal link.
Then, from some posts now, you are just cicling the same 3 things: You are old in EVE, your experience makes you know everything, and you are leaving not because you are weak and cant handle the heat, but because the people in eve are bad and treat you unfairly, and ccp doesnt take your hand and punish your nemesis.
That two has also latin names:
Ad antiquitatem
Ad nauseum
And, lets not forget, Post Hoc.
Because since EVE has never changed, the consequences implyed to be caused by that changes arent really logically related.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
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Posted - 2015.09.05 19:35:55 -
[22] - Quote
When you deal with finance, politics and Information technology, and as a developer in e-Governemnt I deal with all of them, you learn something called Logic Operators. AND, OR, XOR, and some more.
It is indiferent to me if what someone says is true or not, it is a matter of what can be and what cant be, what it is and what it is not.
While your toon has a birthdate which is a solid information, it can or cannot be yours and there is no way to prove it, I choose therefore to ignore that information which I have no way to access and you have no way to back.
While the previous is true, it is also true that your toon was created, remained in a NPC corp for long time, and then joined a rookie corp in terms of EVE history, which bears other toons that are as reasonably assumed bought as your own. This is also more likely by the fact the things you say differ from ALL people who have been playing EVE for a long time, by what they say and can be attested as being accurate.
Therefore, I dont care if the toon is yours, if you played, bought or just started playing, stopped and came back. Your assertions of authority by experience are as void as any I could make myself in this alt.
The same logic I use to see that you are in fact full of it and trying to use pity argument when your sympathy argument failed miserably, and now you are trying to imply an authority argument over an issue that shows you have none.
It is that simple, but I liked the time I was really seemingly considering what you say, for the sake of saying what I wanted. Now I have nothing I want to say left, and thus, I will just ignore you as I would if you havent brought up issues I have had liked to talk about.
Thank you very much. Fly safe !
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